COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - MINUTES - 2/12/2004
COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE – CITY OF MUSKEGO Approved
MINUTES OF MEETING HELD FEBRUARY 12, 2004
Mayor Slocomb called the meeting to order at 6:24 PM. Also present were Aldermen
Petfalski, Patterson, Buckmaster, Damaske, Salentine, and Schroeder, Finance Director
Gunderson and Clerk-Treasurer Marenda. Ald. Madden was absent.
The Mayor stated the meeting was noticed in accordance with the open meeting law.
Ald. Salentine moved for approval of minutes of meetings held January 8, 2004 and
February 4, 2004. Ald. Buckmaster seconded; motion carried.
NEW BUSINESS
Review and Consider for Recommendation 2004-2008 Capital Plan
Finance Director Gunderson distributed revised worksheets on the capital
improvements program, along with a set of documents explaining the changes
proposed to the budget. Ms. Gunderson explained the changes to the budget in detail
per the handout, indicating in some cases the budgeted items have been pushed out to
future years as shown. After review of the Fire Department budgets, Ald. Patterson
moved to continue discussion at the next Committee of the Whole meeting. Ald.
Buckmaster seconded; motion carried. Ms. Gunderson was excused at 7:08 PM.
TEEN ADVISORY BOARD
Presentation of Certificates of Appreciation to Outgoing Members
Mayor Slocomb presented a Certificate of Appreciation to Mandy Kinnick to recognize
her for her service on the Teen Advisory Board. Mayor also read the Certificate of
Appreciation for Christine Plutschak, who was not present to accept the certificate, and
thanked her for her service as well.
Interviews and Selection of Teen Advisory Board Members
Ald. Schroeder explained there are two positions open, and there are six applicants for
the positions. Those not selected can serve as alternate members and participate on
the board, but cannot vote. He impressed on all candidates that regular members are
often unable to fulfill their two-year term, and opportunities arise for alternate members
to become regular members at that time. The following candidates were interviewed as
a group: Courtney Clausen, Bay Lane; Kevin Luling, Christ Lutheran, Big Bend; Kerry
Werner, Bay Lane; Tyler Clausen, Bay Lane; Nicole Samborski, Muskego High School.
Applicant Ryan Kowalski was not present. Following the interviews, a vote was taken
by paper ballot, with the two top vote getters to become regular TAB members. Clerk
Marenda reported the two candidates receiving the most votes were Courtney Clausen
and Kevin Luling, and were elected to serve on the TAB. The new members and
th
alternates will be notified of the meeting on February 19 by e-mail. Mayor called for a
recess.
At 8:05 PM the meeting resumed.
UNFINISHED BUSINESS
Mr. Britt Hall will continue facilitation of a workshop to discuss the organizational
structure of the City.
Committee of the Whole Page 2
February 12, 2004
Mr. Hall reviewed the discussions at the last workshop, which ended with the question
of structure. He asked what would you like as a deliverable when we’re finished with
this workshop, since there wasn’t consensus that there’s anything wrong with the
structure. Ald. Petfalski would like to have some goals set that we can all agree to. Ald.
Schroeder felt at the end of the last workshop there was still some split if the structure
could be changed to facilitate the goal or you could change the manner in which we
operate within the same structure by training to maintain the goal. Ald. Patterson
asked, didn’t we come to the conclusion that the present system was not broke but
we’re looking at ways to make it more responsive? Ald. Schroeder said that didn’t take
out the option of improving it by modifying the structure, or leave it as is and work from
the inside to improve the current structure. He didn’t completely agree that everyone
was in agreement that there is no option of modifying the current structure to improve it.
Ald. Petfalski said one thing agreed on is no one is interested in changing to the City
Manager form of government. So, we’re looking at how strong we want to keep the
Mayor’s office, full or part-time paid, and the amount of responsibilities to that office, or
dividing some off to another position in the structure.
Mr. Hall identified the options discussed as:
Option 1: Status quo
Option 2: Lower pay of Mayor and responsibilities (part-time Mayor). Municipal
Code would have to be changed. Add Administrator or
Administrator/Community Development Director
Option 3: Status quo plus an Administrator/Human Resource position as previously
proposed
Option 4: Add a new Department Head (Human Resource or Economic
Development)
Option 5: Increase term of Mayor to 4 years and Aldermen to 3 years
(potential for discussion)
Ald. Buckmaster felt the issues were leadership vs. management for department heads
and the chief executive, and listed what he would like to see:
Greater understanding between the Mayor’s administration and aldermen
Information gathering and presenting to aldermen in timely manner
Effective use of resources – better communication on certain actions as to why
resource being used or not
Developing background information and providing it as a defense (support) of
recommendations made by the staff
o A process was used
o Background information to support
Mr. Hall said these seem to be underlying issues you’re trying to resolve and asked
which of the options would provide that these issues never happened again. Ald.
Salentine said Option 2 because it would be the Administrator’s job to keep the Council
informed, instead of the political position of the Mayor. Some aldermen felt that position
would also be political. Ald. Buckmaster wondered if maybe the Council hasn’t given
the Mayor the tools he needs to address the issues expressed.
Committee of the Whole Page 3
February 12, 2004
Mayor thought if money were not an issue, he preferred Option 3. With the budget cuts
from the State, staffing that position would have meant letting somebody else go.
Ald. Salentine said if an Administrator were hired to keep continuity and not have to run
for election with a full time mayor, would the mayor then have the time to be the
economic development person? Mayor responded not in total because it would be
unusual that person would have that training and knowledge base. Ald. Salentine felt
the Administrator could then help and guide the Mayor with it. Mr. Hall noted that the
position of economic development could then change every three years. Ald. Salentine
said it would work as long as the Administrator would oversee it. Ald. Petfalski noted
you couldn’t oversee your boss.
Mayor said there is a misconception that if you have an Administrator you have
continuity. In the State of Wisconsin, the length of service of an Administrator is about
60% of that of mayor, or less than five years. Typically mayors are in office for two to
three terms.
Ald. Petfalski spoke to Ald. Salentine’s comment that you only need to be 18 and a
resident of the City to run for Mayor, and asked what gives us seven more wisdom than
the complete electorate to select a qualified leader. Ald. Salentine said we’re only
talking about running the business end of the City and taking the politics out of electing
someone every three years, and that’s why a part-time Mayor is better. The part-time
Mayor is necessary to come up with financing for an Administrator/Community
Development. If we had the money, we could have both the full-time Mayor and
Administrator. We can use the money saved in Planning by promoting from within and
not hiring a separate Community Development Director.
Ald. Patterson said Ald. Salentine is concerned about the continuity of the business if
you get someone who’s not qualified as a Mayor to do the job. It hasn’t happened yet.
This is our form of government where the constituents elect the Mayor to be the leader.
With an administrator, that administrator is not necessarily responsive to the people,
and is changing our government. Ald. Salentine provided an example pertaining to the
business park where politics played a role in the decision-making where an
Administrator wouldn’t have. Mr. Hall noted in the prior workshop it was discussed that
the Administrator reports to the Mayor.
Mr. Hall asked for comments on the specific option as to how it would better serve our
constituents and how it would reduce costs.
Ald. Patterson felt a part-time Mayor would serve our citizens less. In the case of the
business park, we did what the citizens wanted, and didn’t take the attitude of running
like a big business that we don’t have to listen to the people. This is why local
government works.
Ald. Petfalski presently didn’t think our structure negatively impacts citizens, but there
may be personalities in the structure who could do a better job. Maybe adding an
Administrator would affect the flow of getting things done. He said he was not opposed
to the position of Administrator, but was opposed to the cost. If the cost goes up, that’s
the negative part of it. Government needs to get smaller, not adding more bureaucracy.
Committee of the Whole Page 4
February 12, 2004
He didn’t see adding another level as affecting our citizens positively because of the
cost.
Mr. Hall stated even if the Mayor were reduced to part-time pay, the difference would
not be enough to support a new full time position. Ald. Salentine felt you would if you
eliminated the Community Development Director for $74,000, and reduced Mayor to
$30,000 you’d have funding. Ald. Petfalski noted you still need to add a position in
Planning, and the net saving would only be about $39,000.
Ald. Schroeder observed that each alderman sees different problems with the structure,
which makes him think it’s an internal fix rather than a structural fix. Mr. Hall observed
what he’s hearing is between the Mayor’s administration and the City Council, and as
those ships pass in the night are you truly considering redesigning your entire city
government structure because of those issues, or are you saying we want to give the
Mayor the responsibility of developing his people so these things don’t happen to us
anymore to have a better relationship between the administration and the Council.
Ald. Buckmaster spoke to the issue of continuity. He noted even if the terms of the
elected officials change, it’s probably hard to expect continuity from us. Muskego’s
been blessed by our current Clerk with continuity, but with her leaving we see a sudden
change that might happen. I believe the Mayor’s term should be 4 years to provide
greater continuity, and increase aldermen to staggered 3-year terms. An Administrator
would be nice, but they probably fall under the same pressures and options to further
their careers. In business and in the service, when a leader takes office you have a
choice of who their administration staff is, which we don’t have here.
Ald. Patterson stated that although we don’t always agree with them, we have generally
hired very good, very strong department heads who function well with supervision. If
you change Mayor, our City is not going to fall apart because you have a cohesive team
working together with the Mayor as leader of that team. Where the Mayor wants to take
the City is what the citizens are voting on when voting for him. The continuity that we’ve
had is that we’ve had a good working team together, and that isn’t going to change
overnight if the Mayor changes or the aldermen change.
Mr. Hall commented from his point of view, he hears that structural changes are wanted,
but all the things you really want to change are within the existing structure. Ald.
Schroeder noted that from mayors he’s looked at in southeastern Wisconsin, they’ve
come in with a lot of experience, knowledge and background in numerous areas, but
their background isn’t typically public administration, or headed up a department or
company where there’s a lot of employee interaction. He would like to see that we
mandate during the first term of Mayor that they seek certification from something like
the Certified Public Managers program and provide the funding for the training. Mayor
stated it couldn’t be mandated. Ald. Petfalski thought it might be able to be done
through an allowance, bonus or incentive program. Others agreed, and Clerk will find
out if and how it can be done.
Ald. Buckmaster said in response to the question how this organization would benefit
our constituents, he believed there are some expectations from the electorate, and one
of them is not that a Mayor or Department Head works 16-20 hour days, as that leads to
Committee of the Whole Page 5
February 12, 2004
pay and bonus issues. The question is, do you structure your government based on the
lowest possible tax base, or do you do it at the lowest possible cost? Ald. Petfalski felt
you do it most efficiently at the most reasonable cost. Ald. Buckmaster responded,
exactly, so maybe that’s something the Council has to struggle with more so than the
Mayor.
Mr. Hall brought the question back to, is it broke or not. We’ve talked through that we’re
not sure it is and don’t have any clear consensus. The thing that brought us back to talk
is, do we want to change the structure. The options 1 to 4 were again reviewed. Ald.
Petfalski mentioned another option could be a Chief of Staff type of position hired at the
Mayor’s discretion.
Mr. Hall felt it comes down to two options, as the others are just variations. One is to
leave it alone, which through the budget the last couple years, that’s what has been
done. The other option is to lower the pay and responsibilities and make the Mayor
part-time, but you would also either hire an Administrator or an
Administrator/Community Development or add another department head. If you look at
these options, which do you feel provide a better service to our customers? The goal is
not to make a change for the sake of change, but making an improvement to the service
you provide to your constituents or significantly reduce the cost to justify the changes
that will happen within the organizational structure itself. It’s important to come to a
consensus on what you can support. It may not be your first choice, but in a community
where you’re concerned about coming to consensus because we are growing, the last
thing we need on something that’s as important as this is to be divisive long term. The
aldermen selected the option of their choice:
Option 1 Ald. Schroeder, with internal education and training, i.e. Public Manager
Ald. Patterson due to financial concerns with Administrator. Most issues
can be changed internally. Start with Option 1, and as dollars become
available in future years then add as needed
Ald. Petfalski along with taking Option 5 to advisory referendum
Option 2 Ald. Damaske
Ald. Salentine with either full or part-time Mayor. Not interested in hiring a
Community Development Director. Need an Administrator with that
capability. Not opposed to extending terms
Option 3 Ald. Buckmaster, plus Option 5, after first trying to repair what we have
Ald. Schroeder questioned what percentage of time the Mayor’s administrative assistant
was administrative and how much H.R. Mayor responded the H.R. was at the
coordinator level, with about 40% administrative and 60% H.R., but difficult to quantify.
Ald. Schroeder asked if the H.R. could be addressed by changing the job description
upon a new person entering that position, changing the qualifications where it would be
60 or 75% H.R. and 25% or so administrative assistant so we could fulfill what we have
discussed with the H.R. position.
Mr. Hall asked, what now? What direction are you giving the Mayor and what kinds of
things do you think you want to do next?
Committee of the Whole Page 6
February 12, 2004
Ald. Petfalski said for starters he’d like to find a way to implement the education
incentive or mandate, finding out what the costs are, and having the Mayor report back,
and see if our current Mayor is interested in starting that program. He asked it be
placed on a future Finance agenda.
Ald. Patterson said what brought us to the table, what do we do with the Clerk-
Treasurer position. We have to do something to move off center. Ald. Petfalski said
action was taken and the ad placed for a Clerk-Treasurer. Ald. Patterson said we could
bring it back if there are thoughts to separate the positions. From the discussion maybe
there’s been a change of thinking.
Ald. Damaske said he’d like to think about it more.
Ald. Buckmaster would like to know what the internal needs are from the Mayor for his
office to operate effectively – what tools, resources needed to effectively administer,
govern and enforce the actions of this Council. Also feedback on any issues the Mayor
has with the aldermen.
Mayor said we’re not thinking in that mode. We have a tough three or four years to get
through and no where in there does it allow you to seriously consider putting on
additional people. You’ve got to be focused on where you’re going and keeping just
what you have. Part of the discussion earlier tonight was capital budget review.
There’s not going to be the ability to borrow that kind of money because you won’t be
able to add it to your debt service. The funds aren’t there, and you’re going to continue
to see cuts from the State and those are absolutely guaranteed. You have to look at
this is reality, this is what we’ve got to try to achieve for the long term that gives us a
way out of this. Economic Development is that path for this community. The rest of it
you bite the bullet and put in the number of hours to do it. You don’t run for Mayor
because you’re looking for a career. You do it because you’re looking to serve. It’s the
same for aldermen. You do it to make a difference. Some aldermen work 20-40 hours
a week sometimes because that’s what it takes to study it and be proficient at what
you’re trying to do. So where it would really be nice to be, you don’t focus on it because
you know in reality you can’t get there now. You may be able to lay down the road map
or framework for it to be implemented in the future.
Ald. Schroeder said he’s back to the status quo with Option 5, internal change,
furthering education for Mayor and Department Heads. Agree with the Mayor that
adding positions at this point would be a tough thing to do at this point financially on the
top, where we need to talk about police officers, worker-bees that we’ve been putting
off.
Ald. Salentine would proceed with Option 2, extending terms and look at putting on
referendum in the fall. Still wrestling with hiring new people in Planning with people
there now that could do the job. In favor of looking into the training and how it could be
implemented and paid. Need to know what the State is going to do with funding next.
Mr. Hall asked, where will you go now as a group? Ald. Petfalski stated the budget
process will have to talk about this the most – back to wants, needs and abilities. If
you’re going to set the goal that you want an Administrator, do you want it over police
Committee of the Whole Page 7
February 12, 2004
officers and other things? He suggested the budget process be started earlier or set
some goals. Mayor noted typically goals for budget are set at the May or June COW
and that gives the administration the summer to put together the budget for proposal to
Council within the guidelines that have been set up. Ald. Petfalski suggested each
alderman give their scenarios to Dawn and have her provide the cost impacts and
analysis for review. Ald. Schroeder agreed there won’t be a decision on structure until
we go through the budget. Ald. Buckmaster said one thing nice as the Mayor pointed
out is the road map or framework, and he would like it communicated to the alderman
what that is, so we don’t lose sight of the direction we’re trying to get to. Ald. Petfalski
asked if he’d like the Mayors office to put together a list of areas that maybe could use
some help and other areas he believes are solid internally. Ald. Buckmaster said he
would like nothing more than every other month or so give us a status of the City from
administration, department heads – successes, accomplishments, and improvements,
such as the report received from Craig Anderson. We don’t know what the Mayor
needs, where he thinks we ought to go, so the information can be passed on to our
constituents. As an example we can then explain why we might change tracks because
it’s too expensive, but the Mayor does have an Economic Development Plan and
hopefully in two years we’ll get there. Ald. Petfalski said that was a good suggestion,
but one thing that has been placed on the sidelines is setting the goals because Council
leads as much as the Mayor does and this Council needs to come together and decide
what its goals are as well. It’s important for you to communicate that to each other and
the Mayor so you’re not heading in different directions. Would suggest to Council
President the goals be reviewed at the June COW.
Mr. Hall said he was brought in to facilitate discussion and not bring the group to
consensus. That should be done at Council meeting and decide what you want to do.
But now you have a clearer understanding of where people are at and what they’re
looking for. The next step appears to be to wait until the budget cycle and see where
you’re at. Ald. Salentine is still concerned about the Community Development Director
position and will need to be discussed. Believe you have enough information at this
point to move on.
Mr. Hall was thanked for his time and facilitation of the workshops.
Ald. Patterson moved to adjourn at 10:07 PM. Ald. Petfalski seconded; motion carried.
Respectfully submitted,
Jean K. Marenda, CMC
Clerk-Treasurer