COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - MINUTES - 2/4/1999
CITY OF MUSKEGO Approved
COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE
MINUTES OF MEETING HELD FEBRUARY 4, 1999
Mayor De Angelis called the meeting to order at 7:05 p.m. Also present were Aldermen
Slocomb, Chiaverotti, Pionek, Patterson, Salentine, Woodard, and Deputy Clerk
Blenski. Alderman Sanders was not present.
The Deputy Clerk stated the meeting was noticed in accordance with the Open Meeting
Law.
The minutes of the 1/11/99 meeting were accepted.
The Deputy Clerk read the Notice of Closed Session.
NEW BUSINESS
Item No. 1 - Review draft resolution - TIF - Parkland Mall
Mayor De Angelis presented a brief history of the issue. Two resolutions defining
expenses as possibly eligible for tax incremental financing (TIF) for the Parkland Mall
property have been defeated. At the 1/26/99 Council meeting, a request was made that
a resolution be drafted for the purpose of discussion at the 2/4/99 Committee of the
Whole meeting. It is anticipated that the Committee will reach some consensus and a
resolution will then be brought to the 2/9/99 Council meeting. The Mayor stated we
need to keep in mind that the mall must come down and the City’s downtown needs to
be revitalized. He requested that be the focus of discussion. Mayor De Angelis
recommends the Council review and determine the parameters of what it wants to
accomplish. Ground rules will be set for the City, as well as the developer. The focus
tonight should be what the Council wants to do, as a matter of public policy, using tax
incremental financing to redevelop the area. TIF is used to alleviate blight. The
question is how far are we willing to go with public money and what kind of
development do we want.
The Committee determined how public input would be received. Alderman Pionek
requested that the Mayor give a brief explanation of tax incremental financing. The
Mayor presented information on how TIF works. The Mayor responded to several
questions presented by the aldermen. He stated the City does all the general
obligation borrowing. The monies from the TIF are pledged to pay back the general
obligation borrowing. The Mayor stated the developer guarantees that the property will
be developed to a certain level of value. The developer’s agreement establishes the
penalties that will be assessed to make up the difference if that does not occur.
Alderman Slocomb noted that there is some unknown risk to the City if guarantee does
not materialize.
Public Input:
David Wells stated his property abuts the mall. He asked what the time frame was to
demolish the mall. He is concerned about kids going into the abandoned building. The
Mayor responded that Mr. Dyer is looking for commitment that a TIF district would be
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Minutes of Meeting Held February 4, 1999
created and then demolition could begin. Mayor De Angelis stated that the building will
either come down voluntarily or involuntarily. Mr. Wells asked about the impact of the
mold and fungus contained in the building. Alderman Slocomb responded that an
independent review showed that what is in there is common to ordinary air; however,
the concentration level is high. A small percentage of the population, if exposed, could
be affected. There is very little risk now at this time of the year. Alderman Slocomb
stated greater risk factors exist regarding the structure of the building itself.
Jim Luglio asked about the increased value of the property and the benefit the owner
receives. The Mayor stated you are borrowing the money to improve the property
which directly benefits the owner. The Mayor also noted that the developer benefits
from improvements made to the property that he would have been required to complete
and now does not have to pay for. The value of the property increases as the
improvements are made with the property owner paying additional taxes.
Ted Balistreri stated his father and uncle own the Blockbuster/Post Office building. He
clarified that his family does not have an agreement with the owners of Parkland Mall
and they are not interested in selling. They do not want to be included in the TIF
boundary. Mr. Balistreri stated that they would like to see something positive happen to
the mall.
Kathleen Luglio asked what the current and historical property taxes on the mall have
been? She stated that the owners have had the property assessed down to the bare
bones minimum at a current loss to all the taxing bodies. The Mayor stated that the
property is currently assessed at approximately $200,000. He did not know what the
1997 assessment was. Mrs. Luglio stated she knows ballpark figures. The taxpayer
will pay $4,300 for 1998 taxes. The 1997 tax figure was over $30,000. She stated this
was a deliberate effort by the current owner to reduce his contribution to the
community.
Jay Erdman stated he is against inclusion of demolition in the TIF and the use of
taxpayer revenue for private development. He stated $4,323 was paid in taxes for this
year, $27,528 for 1997, and $46,181 for 1995. He objects to the current assessed
value of the property and the owner’s representation to the state that he got stuck with
the property. Mr. Erdman stated the property was bought willingly and as is. He
objects to adjoining properties being included in the TIF due to the taxes that will be
lost. The Mayor clarified that taxes paid by the adjoining properties are not lost to the
different taxing entities, only the potential increase in value of those properties.
Pat Berrigan stated that this situation is what TIF was set up to do. He is uncertain if
demolition expenses should be included from a public policy standpoint. Mr. Berrigan
encouraged working with the developer to create tax incremental financing. Alderman
Salentine stated the City has the power to begin the condemnation process and raze
the building. She objects to being told that we will look at the building forever if the City
does not create a TIF district. Mr. Berrigan acknowledged the City has the power to
issue the razing order. However, Mr. Dyer would be entitled to due process and the
issue could potentially end up in litigation for a long time. The Mayor noted that
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voluntary compliance is preferred and will be to the advantage of the developer and the
community.
Bill Simmons stated he does not agree with using public funds to finance the project.
Mr. Dyer needs to bring something forward. He opposes TIF until a written plan and
financial guarantees are in place. It is best if all parties cooperate. Mr. Simmons
opposes demolition being included in TIF. The City is not in business to benefit a
private landowner.
In response to comments by Alderman Chiaverotti, Mayor De Angelis clarified that
demolition could not have occurred earlier because the property owner did not reach
an agreement to vacate the remaining tenant until fall of last year.
Alderman Slocomb stated the key reason for a preliminary resolution is to say what
possibly would be included in TIF. You need to make a statement before demolition
removes the blight. The Mayor stated that the blight is not entirely removed just
because the building is demolished. Passing a preliminary resolution speaks better to
the Joint Review Board and moves the process along.
Alderman Pionek asked for clarification about the term “City funds.” He does not
believe City funds are in the TIF. The Mayor stated repayment of the funding comes
from the taxes generated by the increment. Part of the payment is money diverted from
the City’s tax portion. It is not money coming from general tax dollars.
Alderman Salentine asked Alderman Pionek what changed his mind about TIF. She
noted that he repeatedly expressed his opinion against and supported other means of
financing. Alderman Pionek responded that he opposed TIF for the proposed business
park because of its location. He stated this is different.
Stuart Wangard stated TIF is an economic tool justified for certain projects. He stated
TIF should not be utilized unless the project would not occur without such financing.
That is the question regarding the demolition. When he has worked with other
municipalities, a question is generally raised if a higher quality development will be
provided with TIF.
Jack Galkowski stated this is a golden opportunity to make our community look
beautiful. Let’s do something besides arguing. He asked if the City tears down the
building, do the taxpayers bear the cost. The Mayor responded that the City will have
to pay for the demolition and the cost is then placed as a lien on the property. What is
it going to take to make this move?
Mario Deluca stated he has several businesses in the area. He has watched the
process for months. It is clear the mall has to come down and qualifies for TIF. The
choice between a $4 million project and a $10 million project (with TIF) is clear to him.
Stop arguing and get involved with Mr. Dyer. Mr. Deluca stated Alderman Salentine is
the spearhead against this project.
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Aldermen Pionek stated there are three ponds in the area with problems that will have
to be addressed. The City will have to do something with them which will cost the
taxpayers money. This could be included in the TIF district.
John Petkoff of Parkland Ventures stated there are other people involved in this project
besides Mr. Dyer. We are here to spend money and make the community nice. Let the
majority rule. Mr. Petkoff stated he has been in the business for 25 years and has
worked in many other communities. Alderman Woodard asked if there were any plans
to sell the property. Mr. Petkoff responded no. Alderman Patterson stated the
aldermen must listen to their constituents. Mr. Petkoff agreed. He noted someone has
to give a little to get a lot in the end.
Art Dyer stated the mall has been deteriorating for 15 years. The first week he owned
the mall he did more work than what was done in the previous 15 years. The shell of
the structure was going to be used. Due to contamination, that plan was abandoned.
The experts hired by Parkland Ventures say now is the time to take the building down.
If taken down by the City, the amount of blight is reduced. There will not be enough to
pay for stormwater improvements. The incremental value will be reduced. Mr. Dyer
stated that Mr. Erdman misquoted the findings of the state regarding the assessed
value. Mr. Dyer stated he and Mr. Petkoff are prepared to give a financial guarantee.
Don’t put a two million dollar tax burden on citizens. Mr. Dyer urged the Council
members to work together with him. Alderman Salentine questioned the spirit of
cooperation as he threatened to personally sue her, Domonic D’Acquisto and the
Mayor. She stated he has asked to be treated like any other developer. Mr. Dyer
responded that Alderman Salentine has a personal vendetta against him because he
foreclosed on her parents’ mortgage. The Mayor advised Mr. Dyer that he would not
allow these type of remarks to continue.
Richard Knudsen noted he likes the availability of open discussion. Take the name of
the developer away. If another developer owned the mall, the same financing
opportunities would be pursued. Mr. Knudsen encouraged the use of public monies as
other cities have done. Now is the time to make wrong right; don’t get caught up in
your own personal opinions. Get the best deal you can; the best deal for the City is to
get a TIF district. Forget about the developer and move on with the project.
Bill Simmons stated there are avenues of financing other than TIF.
Alderman Patterson stated, in response to comment by Mr. Deluca, that the Council
members are seven independent individuals. This is not about the Council going in
one direction because of one alderman.
Committee Discussion:
Alderman Slocomb noted that there were 14 items presented in the July 14, 1998 plan
submitted by Parkland Ventures. He would like to address each of the items.
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Alderman Pionek noted that the committee needs to determine if there is a consensus
for TIF before individual items are discussed. The consensus was unanimous in favor
of TIF.
1. Hazardous Materials Remediation
Alderman Slocomb opposes inclusion in TIF because it is contained within the facility.
He opposes use of public funds for private development; his constituents have not
indicated otherwise.
Vote 4 (Slocomb, Chiaverotti, Patterson, Salentine) in favor to remove and
2 in favor (Pionek and Woodard) to keep.
Alderman Slocomb noted that the dollar amounts cannot be looked at; the Committee
should only consider if it is receptive to include the items in a possible TIF district.
2. Demolish Existing Structures
Alderman Slocomb noted that he opposes.
Vote 3 (Slocomb, Patterson, Salentine) in favor to remove and
3 (Chiaverotti, Pionek, Woodard) in favor to keep. Due to tie at committee level,
item died.
Alderman Pionek requested vote on mall structure only. The result was the same as
the previous vote.
3. Tenant Relocation.
The Mayor noted there were none to be relocated.
4. Regrade Property and Create Building Sites
Alderman Slocomb stated that was totally a developer’s cost.
Vote 6 in favor to remove.
5. Install Traffic Control - Parkland Drive and Janesville Road
Alderman Pionek requested that Lannon Drive upgrade be included. Alderman
Salentine noted that the City requires developers to pay for the impact their
developments have. The Mayor stated that TIF can only be used to the extent that the
development has an impact on the outside improvement. It has to be a benefit to the
TIF district. Alderman Slocomb stated the item will be retitled, “Install/Upgrade Traffic
Control - Parkland Drive, Janesville Road, and Lannon Drive.
At this point, Mr. Dyer interrupted and stated you are wasting your time. He will not
guarantee a ten million dollar project if there is no benefit to him and demolition is not
included.
5. Install/Upgrade Traffic Control - Parkland Drive, Janesville Road, and Lannon Drive
Vote 6 in favor to include.
6. Install Utilities to New Construction
This item was clarified to include laterals from main service to property line.
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Vote 6 in favor to include.
7. Construct Stormwater Retention System
Vote 6 in favor to include.
8. Regrade and Repave Parking Lot
Alderman Slocomb stated opposition.
Vote 6 in favor to remove.
9. Complete Building Site Enhancements
Alderman Pionek requested this be left until the end.
10. Install Site Lighting
Item was changed to include only street lights.
Vote 5 in favor to include with 1 (Salentine) in favor to remove.
11. Install Curbing and Parking Lot Islands
Vote 6 in favor to remove.
12. Install Sprinkler System
Item was clarified as exterior only.
Vote 6 in favor to remove.
13. Install Landscaping
Vote 6 in favor to remove.
14. Administration, Planning, and Legal Services
Item was clarified to include to the extent required for the TIF items, or the creation of
TIF district.
Vote 6 in favor to include.
9. Complete Building Site Enhancements
Alderman Pionek stated the item was too general; spell out. He noted it could be used
to pick up additional costs (brick required by the Plan Commission) so as not to lose a
potential tenant. The Mayor suggested the title of the line item could be changed to
“Economic Incentives” to achieve that objective. There was support for that concept as
it gave the City latitude and provided some contingency for the unknown.
9. (Retitled) Economic Incentives
Vote 6 in favor to include.
Lannon Drive Upgrade
Alderman Slocomb suggested inclusion of this item.
Vote 6 in favor to include.
Signature Feature
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Minutes of Meeting Held February 4, 1999
Alderman Pionek suggested the inclusion of this item if the City would like to see
something like this in the development to enhance the downtown area. Aldermen
Salentine and Patterson voiced objection. Alderman Chiaverotti stated it could be
included later. Alderman Pionek said the point is to add everything we can now.
Vote 3 (Slocomb, Patterson, Salentine) in favor to remove and
3 (Chiaverotti, Pionek, Woodard) in favor to keep.
Alderman Pionek requested that the demolition item be revisited to include a specific
dollar amount that TIF could pay for. Anything additional would be borne by the
developer. Aldermen Slocomb and Patterson stated opposition. Alderman Chiaverotti
stated the idea was a compromise and a good incentive. Alderman Pionek noted that
the TIF districts of the past have indirectly benefited developers and landowners.
There isn’t any difference here. Alderman Chiaverotti stated a number of the other
items that the aldermen have agreed to include will benefit the developer; it is
contradictory. Alderman Slocomb stated the other items have a public purpose. The
TIF already provides significant benefits to the developer and to add further economic
benefit is poor public policy. There has been no direct private improvement in any past
TIF. Alderman Pionek stated that the City will benefit from the additional tax revenue
after the TIF is paid. The community will benefit. Alderman Chiaverotti also noted that
jobs will be created and putting something there that is useable and attractive is a
positive aspect. Alderman Patterson stated his constituents do not want demolition
included in the TIF district. Alderman Pionek stated the mall is in his district. His
people are saying the opposite. Alderman Chiaverotti indicated that she had calls on
both sides of the issue, almost split down the middle. Alderman Pionek stated it makes
a difference where you live regarding this item.
Additional Public Input:
Mr. Dyer asked why he would offer a personal guarantee and accept the risk when the
City will not include demolition in the TIF district. The Mayor noted that there are other
incentives being extended to Mr. Dyer. There is nothing that says you have to pay for
demolition with TIF to create the TIF district. Mr. Dyer stated he has to receive benefits
to guarantee ten million dollar project; that is just good business sense.
Wendy Reinboldt stated she has seen TIF districts work in other areas. Give a future
tenant incentive to come here. The negative articles will keep potential businesses
away. Having a two million dollar project versus having a ten million dollar project
should mean something.
Mr. Erdman asked if there was a value to the items to be included in the TIF. The
Mayor stated that is not known at this time.
Kim Murphy stated she has a business and was contacted by Mr. Dyer to possibly
relocate, or expand in this area. With everything she has read, she would not be
interested.
Rick Petfalski, Highland Park Drive, stated he has a business in the area. The City and
its citizens will receive benefits if money is given to an individual developer. Mr.
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Petfalski stated does not object to the developer benefiting because he will receive a
benefit as well. He does not want to see developed into another strip mall project.
Aldermen Woodard stated she believes people in Muskego do not understand TIF or
all of the facts involved. We are not working together. Why can’t we include
everything and make this the best project it can be. This will benefit all of us; she
would not put her constituents at risk.
The Mayor noted this will come forward to Tuesday’s Council meeting.
There was no miscellaneous business. In an effort to adhere to the 10:00 time limit,
none of the other items on the agenda were discussed.
CLOSED SESSION
Ald. Chiaverotti moved to convene into closed session pursuant to §19.85(1)(e)
Deliberating or negotiating the purchasing of public properties, the investing of public
funds, or conducting other specified public business, whenever competitive or
bargaining reasons require a closed session; more specifically discussion of a possible
border agreement with the Town of Vernon. Ald. Slocomb seconded; motion carried 6-
0. The Deputy Clerk was dismissed.
Alderman Salentine moved to convene into open session. Alderman. Slocomb
seconded; motion carried 6-0.
Alderman Slocomb moved to adjourn at 10:13 p.m. Alderman Salentine seconded,
motion carried.
Respectfully submitted,
Jill Blenski, CMC
Deputy Clerk
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